An Online Conversation between students of California Institute of Arts and artist Tattfoo Tan.
Moderated by Jade Thacker and Ali Valle. Initiated by School of Art, Visiting Art Faculty Patrick Killoran.
Jade Thacker and Ali Valle:
This is Ali and Jade from Patrick Killoran’s class. We’ve been researching your work and we’re really excited about your projects! We thought we should introduce ourselves and ask you if you had any suggestions for us about how to go about hosting our presentation of you/ and your work. We’ll be sharing your work with the class on February 19th, and the blog with all the Q&A, on the 26th. We definitely have questions for you and we’re looking forward to communicating with you!
Tattfoo:
Great to meet both of you. Tell me a bit about yourself. What is your background, art practice, artistic mission, life viewpoint, hobby etc? I think you can post your questions on the blog I created for this project. We can start the Q&A now if you are ready. Just click on the home page of my website--www.tattfoo.com. Feel free to use any images you need from my website for your presentation.
Jade Thacker:
Hello Tattfoo! I was really excited when I first looked at your website. I really enjoy the kind of work you are making. Seeing the site, reinforced to me the necessity of having a website, for an artist like you; It allows people from all walks of life to interact with the work.
Today I ate a fancy chocolate bar with hickory smoked almonds, grey sea salt, and deep milk chocolate. The back of the packaging had instructions for how to eat the chocolate. I was reading them out loud, but it would have been more effective had I read them to myself while eating the chocolate. But, I had company, and allowed them to indulge in the chocolate experience, and listen to the sound of my voice (especially since part of the instructions included “seeing the chocolate”). The chocolate bar was really funny, with a photo of the choco-chef on the back- she looked like one of those sexy Valencia housewives, who took a Sears-like portrait, leaning luxuriously over a mirror- it makes her look naked! Funny yummy chocolate experience.
I grew up in Los Angeles with creative parents and 2 older brothers. As a kid, I liked to explore in the empty lot behind my house, creating imaginary amusement park settings, dragging neighbors around in whatever I could find. I think the memory of this experience has been most influential on my art making nowadays- inducing moments of pleasure in a mundane setting. Now, I live in Val Verde- a little mountain town just north of CalArts, where I have the space for a garden. I’m a BFA 4 and graduating very soon.
I guess, as of lately, a hobby has been drawing on dollar bills. I have enjoyed turning those grim faced men into glamorous ladies: “Babe Lincoln,” for example. I’ll attach a photo of one. This year, my main collaborators/best friends and I curated and installed a bunch of artworks/ workshops for the Anarchist Book Fair in Los Angeles, including a Dollar Bill Decoration Workshop. That was a lot of fun, very friendly and colorful.
Different projects of mine have involved collecting things (pieces of someone, information or object) from individuals within a community. I also did a project with secrets. Over a 9-month period at CalArts, I collected anonymous secrets in a metal box, installed in a stairwell. Eventually, I transcribed them, put them into categories (CalArts, confession, sex, love, god, family), onto clear vinyl, and put them on 2 stories of windows accessible from the box.
The work I want to do now is about bringing moments of honesty or pleasure into the lives of many. I enjoy bringing people together to make something in collaboration with one another. Sometimes it is symbolic, but hopefully it can accomplish more than that. I would like people to feel liberated or engaged, or simply a wonderful version of himself or herself within a critical moment.
I will try to post questions on your blog soon. Very nice to meet you!
Tattfoo:
Hi. Yes, I agree, a website is very important now. To me, it is a 24/7-exhibition space. Sometimes, people just can’t make it to all the shows. It is good that they can drop by the site for a quick update.
Yummy Chocolate!!! What is the brand? One of my artist friends, Caitlin Barrigan, presented a chocolate kidney at the Whitney Museum in one of their public programs. I had a chance to try one. I like the glammed up money. Add some bling to the green or it might look like old drag queens. :) There are other artists that explore $$ and exchange. I’m now part of a shop called “FREE shop” by Double A Project, in Lower Manhattan.
Ali Valle:
So nice to meet you. So, I’m going to write this in hopes that it gives you a better idea of who I am.
I am originally from Los Angeles, but I’ve lived most my life in a small town called San Luis Obispo, which is almost in the center of California, on the coast. I come from a Mexican/Chinese family and I feel it has greatly influenced my life viewpoint, as you put it. When I saw the piece you did entitled “Nuevo Americana Recipes,” I was really excited because it illustrates something extremely important and meaningful about the role of food in our daily experience, the consumption of history and identity, and the idea of play within the combinations and arrangements of such. Cuisine has played a huge part in my life and I am in the process of figuring out how to incorporate it into my artistic practice. I would have to say that I experience culture in a very fluid way…. which is a very valuable experience, one that raises questions of identity and the creation of meaning in my mind. Meaning that I don’t see it as a fixed process, more so, in constant transformation. I am very interested in exploring ideas of indeterminacy, where meaning is shifting.
Part of my background is also based in mechanics. After high school, I knew that I was interested in art, but more so, in bicycles and the direct correlation I had experienced with them in producing feelings of freedom and self-sufficiency. From a very young age, I had been interested in the mechanics of movement, building, etc. Before going to art school, I spent 8 years working as a bicycle mechanic. I am 25 now and have since seen the bicycle as a large part of my artistic practice. When it comes to my work as a mechanic, I feel I have a very unique perspective, one of an insider and an outsider.
Before working as a mechanic I always saw my interest in mechanics as creative, expressive, and having nothing to do with my gender. After working in the field and experiencing the misogyny and generally divisive behavior of most of my male coworkers, I found that fostering unity and feminism into my practice to be extremely important and empowering. I see the bicycle as a mechanism for social practice and community building and I am working on projects now directly dealing with these issues. I hope this is a sufficient introduction. If you have any questions please feel free and ask.
Tattfoo:
Thanks for the intro and bio. I’m glad you like Nuevo Americana Recipes. Food is gaining momentum as a medium in art practice. Take at look at this link:
http://www.gestalten.com/motion/clip?id=73
Marije Vogelzang had been playing with food as her medium for some time now.
This site is also very interesting: http://www.foodpairing.be/
It is a glad blessing that you have knowledge of mechanics. Do use all your other interests and knowledge in your art making practice. That is what I did! On the way, learn new skills and know how. Now, I’m learning Flash and audio recording and playing with digital audio files.
I like your approach to the bicycle concept. It is very current and engaging and explores issues surrounding alternative transportation and it’s community. Keep me updated and let me know how it all turns out.
Patrick Killoran:
Hi Tattfoo! We hope you are having a nice day. We noticed that you did not post the email you sent to Ali and Jade inquiring about their backgrounds/ life view points/ art goals, etc. Your turn! Tell us some more about your background, where you grew up, went to school(s)…
Tattfoo:
I started as a graphic designer and began to practice art nine years ago. Whenever I am working on a design client’s project, I am always thinking, “Why am I doing this when the brochure I design will be throw away or obsolete in a few months?”
I started painting and showing in galleries and sold some work. It is always great to know that your art is being appreciated and collected. But, I’m not satisfied. I do not like the relationship between gallery and artist, or the gallery system. Overall, only a few privileged individuals have the opportunity to enjoy my paintings and I end up with a storage space full of them. Now, it has become a burden rather than a joy.
I started to study Zen, Buddhism, and Wabi-sabi. I found that interaction and intervention with people in the most intimate and fleeing moment is where art actually happens. How do I know when it is just life or when it is art? My definition- it is art when it is useless. Ask yourself when you do a project, “will this be useful?”
Also, I ask the question, “is being an artist a real job? A paying job? Or at least can I be appreciated in some small financial sense?” I added a donation page on my website. It had been 2 years and I haven’t received even 1 cent. That means yes, I’m doing it right. It is useless. That is why no one pays me anything and no one care about my art. I have to be the champion of it and stick to it.
Now, I’m developing a new idea about urban farming and am turning my practice more towards the aesthetic of listening from the producer’s role. I’m learning so much even without really getting into the project. I had already learned about discrimination in the origin of the plants, Native vs. Alien (Down the garden path: The artist’s garden after modernism, Queens Museum of Art), land ownership, and rights vs. survival.
Jade:
Dear Tattfoo! This is Jade. How has your day been? I feel like I could ask you so many questions. I hope this isn’t too cluttered already. This idea of conversation through the Internet is very strange to me. I don’t use instant chatting, and when I email it is often to meet up with someone in “real life”; it can be used as a conversation tool, but usually with people I have met in person and made eye contact with (my mom, teachers, good friends). But, looking through so much of your work, I feel a real sense of your personality and that does help my flow of thought. In writing, as opposed to the free flow of talking, there is an intense urge to edit and continually go back and back and back, and I am afraid I will lose my instinctive reactions if I do that too much. So, here you go:
You mention the question of Artist as a real job, a real job being something that is paid. You mention the idea that since your website hasn't made any money in two years, this practice is clearly deemed useless, because it is not a job, not something that pays. Do you consider yourself to have a job? Do you see your art as work? Or, is it a duty?
I am not sure what you mean when you refer to the aesthetic of listening from the producer’s role? To me, it sounds like thinking from the eyes of the facilitator, rather than participator. Do you mean to establish a hierarchy between yourself and the audience for your work? Do you see participants as sometimes audience and other times co. authors? What differentiates the two? Clearly you believe everyone is an artist and you wish to spread creative possibilities, but your website (which I do see as a form of gallery) does flaunt your authorship. I enjoyed your brief writing about co.- authorship in relation to Bread Rock, but there are numerous other places in the website that scream “Tattfoo” quite literally- in the reference of yourself in 3rd person, you become almost the Artist as Hero. What do you associate as the aesthetic potential for listening? How would you talk about your idea of the most useful listening?
In the Elixir Series, are you making fun of a type of person? The more I look at this project on your website, the more satirical it seems. Thinking about the ownership of dogs (animal domesticity), the frantic nature of NYC (how I hardly got a wink of sleep when I stayed in my friend’s Chelsea apartment in the summer), and capitalism through market strategies and consumerism– I just wonder what your position is on this.
Tattfoo:
I’m doing great. I just went to Patrick’s talk at The New Museum. It was a great opportunity for me to hear him explain his work in context with another artists. Bravo! Patrick.
I don’t instant chat either, but I think writing is a great way to document our conversation and let the rest of the class read about it. Hopefully we’ll meet each other one day.
P.S.: other students who are reading this: feels free to join in on the conversation.
The way I see art is, as a practice, a quest, a journey, something that you do to learn more things about yourself and the idea of life. That is the big question, right? Why are we here? Where do we go? Who are we? I practice art similar to the way someone practices a religion. That said, I’m a student, a believer, and a missionary of art.
To me, the aesthetic of listening is about not trying to have a clear goal when one starts a project. Let’s listen to participants’ stories and what is on their mind and explore things together. I do agree that it is very hard to do and that it sets one up for a greater chance of failure. I’m so used to having a master plan for all of my projects, so that each individual part will fall into place once I execute the scheme. For my new “urban farming” project, I decided to let go of the structure and see where it will go. A good analogy is that of the growth of a bonsai, clear cut and distinctive. Now, it will be a wild bush, chaotic, with networks of rhizomes buried and waiting for the next season to bloom again. This will be my first attempt.
I think my work is always debatable. I always contradict myself. I don’t think the world is black and white, good or evil. There are always two sides of a story. Each project is a trial for the next project. You can see my progress. In 2007 my work is more “artist as the hero,” 2008, more about everyone as an artist. 2009, hmmm. I’m still working on it (I think it will be more along the lines of aesthetics of listening). I see the website more like an archive, documenting my progress. I try not to edit it. Well, 2006 and before is all paintings and drawing. I decided that it would be too confusing to include these.
I’m glad that you realize that it screams Tattfoo. It is like a branding. You know what a Picasso looks like or a Pollack looks like. For me, as a post-studio artist, I try to do works that explore certain themes and ideas, more performance and participation. But, I’m lacking collaborative experiences with fellow artists or other experts.
Elixir series is actually based on a “10 steps to good health” article that I found in a men’s magazine. I started to think and perform each of the recommended ideas. I managed only to do three of the 10 steps. I guess I lost interest along the way.
Patrick Killoran:
Tattfoo, Thanks for coming to the talk. I just got back to LA. As you have already seen, Jade and Ali both have practices related to your own. In fact, there are a few students in the class who deal with many of the same issues… diet, consumerism, community, performance and the use of public space. Jade seems to be interested in forming communities where as Ali makes objects that sometimes reflect a community. I think I can see both strategies in your work.
Ali Valle:
Hey Tattfoo, Thanks for all of your responses. You mentioned that your work often contradicts itself and that each project is a testing ground for future ones. You also mentioned that you see your website as an archive. Do you feel that a certain tension exists between how the work is documented and the execution of the actual project? I was wondering how you have found your background as a graphic designer to effect your work and whether it is part of this contradiction? Perhaps this is what you were talking about when mentioning the shift from being in the producer role to the aesthetics of listening. I am very interested in your analogy comparing the listening aesthetic with the creation of networks of rhizomes buried. How is the urban farming project coming along? Can you explain how exactly you are letting go of structure in this current project?
Miky T. Ma:
Hello. I'm in Patrick’s class.
John Barlog:
Hi, I'm John. It is nice to meet you. In addition to what Ali asked above–How you are letting go of structure in your new projects–Why do you feel inclined to make this shift now? You mentioned these shifts in one of your responses to jade’s response, as well as the different themes of the past years–Are these shifts preconceived as a product of your embrace of contradiction or do you simply follow your ideas, realizing afterwards that contradictions appear and identifying them or or…?
Patrick Killoran:
Miky, you can offer us more than that? Your work parallels Tattfoo’s. Perhaps you could explain one of your works in relation to one of Tattfoo’s projects?
Melvin Mackey Jr.:
Hello Tattfoo,
Thank you for inviting us to post on your conversational blog.
My name is Melvin Mackey Jr.
I’m a 4th year Undergrad at CalArts originally from Lancaster, CA, a desert suburb 40mins North of Los Angeles.
Over the past year, I’ve been moving heavily into the use of video and have been making works that document the Process of my Art Making Practice.
In these works, an important idea behind the approach is “Experience,” not my “Experience”, but the “Experience” of the Viewer.
When engaging with this idea…
I’ll quote you; “The Aesthetic of Listening” is exercised.
For me, this is the moment where I find myself in heavy meditation, allowing the work to slowly unveil itself from the idea.
At times I’ve found the method very frustrating, leading me to abandon an idea…
But, the more it is exercised, the clearer the voice, and the more direct the approach.
It is at the apex of Listening, that I know how the idea works for me. At this point, I feel that I can move onto the actual documentation of the Process, creating the work itself.
The Process can range from any subject to any place or landscape.
I find that it isn’t the Process that is important; but what takes place in the Process that is.
That is why in a majority of my works, I refuse the use of text and/or language and navigate a path with a loose set of rules.
An important thing for me is not “how do I fit into this idea?” but, “what informed me of the idea itself?” deconstructing it, and working backwards to arrive at the Process that is documented and given to an audience to “Experience.”
I must say though, I’m interested in “The Aesthetic of Listening.”
I’ve never heard it quoted like that, but know that it exists due to “Experiencing” its feeling many times.
Would you say that the feeling is derived from a great sense and understanding of ones true “Home”?
Tattfoo:
Ali, Please explain more about the tension vs. documentation question you posted. For me, documentation is not just about capturing the moment, but also has to be clear and hopefully conveys the essence of the moment or nature of the project. Of course, aesthetics play an important role. I believe, we as visual artists need to do that. If someone does not get the concept, at least the image is beautiful to look at. This also goes the other way around. If a picture is beautiful, naturally someone will spend a longer time looking at it and hopefully it will convey the concept of the art piece. I see my knowledge as a graphic designer helping my art practice. The same goes for my interest in photography. I think your knowledge of mechanical engineering will be a great tool to explore and use.
Usually, my projects end once I stop working on them. I think it is because the idea was started by me and will be considered finished once I reach my goal (i.e.: an exhibition-like the Share A Prayer, a print out like the Nuevo American Cuisine). It just stops. I would like to keep collecting recipes but no one sends them to me. This type of project is more artist-centric even if it had an aspect of participation from the public.
In comparison to the nature of web 2.0. This would be a “blog”. Yes, other people can write comment and read the post, but it is still control by the blog original author.
What I’m doing with the urban gardening project will act like a Wikipedia. Everyone can work on it and no one is the author. The topic of urban farming has been explored for a long time. For instance, the victory garden during the depression era, or a more current project by Fritz Haeg called Edible Estate:
http://www.fritzhaeg.com/garden/initiatives/edibleestates/main.html
So, what more can I do? Maybe I can be part of the movement. Next month I’ll be enrolled in a 3 month long class to become a certified Master Composter. It is a course offered by the local Park Department/Botanical Garden. This type of project is an open source, and after I’m bored with it, people will still be gardening.
This website hopefully will explain more:
Resources: http://www.jendelosreyes.com/openengagement/
John, I think, hopefully, every step I have made or will make is progress. When I do a project, I just do it and let the critic say the rest of the art jargon. What matters to me is that I enjoy the process while working on the project. Also, if after the project, I learned something about myself or about the world we live in; it would be a bonus.
Melvin, I agree with your view. Experience is very important as the viewer or audience in contact with the art. But remember, your own experience is very important too. Good or bad, it will help you grow as an artist and as a person. Sometimes, it is good to just do the art at an impulse and see where it leads you.
Melvin Mackey Jr.:
Tattfoo, You are absolutely correct. I do feel that one needs to understand their position in their practice before delving into the realm of sharing.
Whether that be through intuitive art making, meditation, or self-reflection…
As well as, coming to a personal understanding of who you are and why these ideas are important to you. Not to mention, that it is the perpetual state of “Experience” that we are constantly engaging with, that informs us. And, if we are unable to understand that, how can we address the issues that are important to us as Artists?
Lee:
Hello Tattfoo. I am a little late, but as they say, “better late then never.” My work seems to be completely different from yours. In a way, I make useless objects that glow. So it is wonderful to see you talk and discuss your process. I am always bad at coming up with questions, but I assure you, I will have one soon.
Tattfoo:
Lee, Welcome to the blog and I look forward to our conversation.
Jade, Thanks for sending me your show’s invite. I strongly encourage artists to promote their work and events by email, Facebook, postcards, etc… Remember, you are your best PR. Keep up the good work. Hope to keep on receiving your updates even after our session here.
Lee:
Hello again! Tattfoo, I was thinking a lot about your work in relation to consumption and the existential effects of that consumption. Does this have anything to do with your beliefs in Zen, Buddhism, and the notions of consumption that stems from those teachings? Warm regards.
Tattfoo:
Lee, Yes and No. I just began reading about wabi-sabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi) and the Tao Te Ching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching) a few years ago. Bread Rock, Pondering, and Heat Scroll are a few that were directly influenced by the philosophy above. I’m still interested in exploring concepts that are not tangible, for instance, sound, scent, value, game, etc. I grew up in a family that was very Zen without knowing it. My parents are not Buddhist nor do they understand anything about Zen, but they live a simple life and always edit our belongings.
When I was a painter and had shows in galleries, I was always burdened by the transportation and insurance of the artworks. Those works that did not get sold, came back to me. After a couple of years, they became a burden, like a kid who never leaves home and has to constantly be taken care of and fed (storage=rent). Emotionally, they are a slice of my previous time, time that was past, time that is gone. I’m not a nostalgic person. I like what is to come. It is tomorrow not yesterday that interests me.
Back to the sold paintings…I was very happy, but felt as if only a privileged few got to see them. I wanted more. I wanted more outreach, more exposure, more connection, and found that less, is more. I have to let go and gain new insight.
I started to read more about conceptual ideas and found that social sculpture/relational aesthetics suit me best.
Yana:
Hey Tattfoo! I might just be the latest person to enter this conversation. I must admit, I have held off because it was hard for me to find a place in a conversation about letting go, community, and open-ended art based on experience. My practice tends to be the polar opposite in that I’m pretty controlled and private - and I am only now beginning to think about how important and simply nice it is to have a warm community of people that feel in some way connected to one another. I immigrated to America and my family has tended to stay within its own unit - and I have tended to stay in my own world as well. However, I have really enjoyed looking through your website, and wishing I could eat the incredible food you present in bringing people together. And, the ‘Open Secret’ project is right up my alley. I loved that. I am really interested in the point that Lee brought up about consumption. My knowledge of Buddhism is quite limited. But, I imagine that it is most Zen to have a minimal amount of very practical belongings to keep a clear soul and mind. I’m starting to realize, that is probably quite true…and maybe I could rid myself of the useless crap I have. But, it is really difficult for me to think about letting go of a lot of my art pieces. What is your position on the state of consumption currently? -Whether it is related to the amount of media Americans are swallowing regularly, the useless merchandise we purchase, or especially the amount of (shitty) food being inhaled constantly? What are existential effects of consumption anyway? Do these topics weigh heavily on your art practice, your life, or both?
Tattfoo:
Welcome Yana, I’m glad you joined in. I think it is OK to be private and controlled. Everyone’s vision and ideas are different. That is what makes this world wonderful. Keep on exploring your artwork. There is no need to change or keep up with any trends. Finally, the motivation of all artwork is personal and political. I do understand your point. I also do stay in my own world. We all do. We all like to be close to people who look like us. It’s human nature. Just remember to have relationships with people that are not be in your community as well, people that have the same vision, drive, and passion. They will be there to encourage and provide constructive criticism. So, look out for your mentor.
I don’t have any more knowledge of Zen practice than you do. I think the nature of Zen was embedded in my Asian upbringing unconsciously. It is good to edit your own work. We as artists are always editing. One has to decide what piece of artwork to show and what is only a doodle. I just go an extra step and edit my belongings.
Consumption, to me, is not about the product, producer, marketers, or the media. We can’t blame anyone. We are all consumers. This economic structure makes the modern financial world go around. But it is about you and me. We choose. We have a mind that should be able to choose and articulate what we want and need. In some way, we are editing our options. We decide how much we want to eat, what to buy, what to see on TV. We, as the consumer, control the demand and the supply follows. We are now in a financial crisis, due to the irresponsibility of our choices.
Go forth and choose wisely.
Patrick Killoran:
Hi Tattfoo. Up to now we have been discussing your personal approach but I would be interested in hearing more about what you think of collaboration. In particular, when other artists help author a work and maybe to contrast that, when the viewer is recruited?
Tattfoo:
Patrick, I love collaboration, but have not found a great partner. I think we were very lucky to have found each other. I like your work and we discussed and then started this online conversation piece. This is already a good collaboration. Hopefully we will be able to do other projects in the future.
I have found that the most successful collaborations involve parties that knew each other first. Either they were childhood friends, college friends or had been working together in another place or institution.
I tried to collaborate on projects like “Metro Poles: Art in Action” at the Jamaica Center of Arts and Learning. I managed to work with Colin McMullan (http://emceecm.com/) and Caitlin Berrigan (http://www.membrana.us/), whose work I admire. I feel that our thinking is very similar. We ended up not being able to come up with an idea to execute together. We ended up working individually in the same venue at various times. Other artists that were in the show, whom I do not know personally, did not seem eager to start small talk, much less, collaborate. Maybe it is the artist’s ego.
But, I’m not losing hope. I’m proposing another idea to Colin’s project called K.I.D.S. (www.kindnessandimaginationdevelopmentsociety.wordpress.com). I call my new idea “Creative Tribal Council,” a light-hearted conversation inside an indoor tepee in my studio. The audio recording will be broadcasted on our website.
My work so far is more about participation then collaboration. Usually a Call-for-Action email is sent out to initiate a project. The email has a detailed brief of the entire project, what to do, and what the final result will be. Participants usually like to know what they are doing, to be spoon-fed the creativity. That is why I’ll attempt to work on the urban garden project differently. I think if the participants are already very proficient in their medium i.e.: gardening, I can be the one who is learning instead. I then may suggest a creative idea that can be explored together.
Does this provide an answer to your question?
Patrick Killoran:
Yes it does.
Jade Thacker:
Hi Tattfoo! I hope things are going well. I was looking at the website and saw the K.I.D.S. project! I am so excited to hear about this- sounds like so much fun. I would love to submit some action to take place. I won’t be in NYC, but could I propose something to the organizers who might be able to perform my activity??? I know the deadline is tomorrow. What do you think?
Tattfoo:
Feel free to submit your idea to Colin. I’m sure he can work out the details with you.